Rob Dowling: All right. Well, first of all, I want to apologize to everybody for kicking this off just a few minutes late. For anybody who's joining us live, my apologies. Hopefully, you didn't have to wait too long or question whether the webinar was starting. There was a little bit of technical difficulties to kick this off. But otherwise, I hope everybody's been able to join. We're really lucky to be joined by Jonathan over at Precision Design center, to help us out in going through, which hopefully, will be a really informative webinar series to add to hopefully, for the folks who have already been joining us a good little catalogue to help those listeners make all the material selections, design decisions, and all of those important factors. I can't think of many more important design decisions than appliances.

So, Jonathan, thanks for joining us and thank you again for taking the time. I'll introduce you in just in one minute. But we'll jump right into it. Ultimately, I'll do a quick little spiel, Jonathan. I'll probably make mine a little bit shorter than five minutes so that we can jump right into it. I'll give Jonathan a time to introduce himself, talk a little bit about Precision, and all the work they do. And also, kind of we'll just jump into about a 10-minute overview of, hey, what are the appliances that we may cover during today's session. And then we'll jump into actually a showroom tour. We did a similar exercise for cabinets and we found out that this was a great way to go through. You had an amazing showroom, I think right there in Pleasanton. Is that right Jonathan? Pleasanton?

Jonathan Lopez: Yep, that's correct.

Rob Dowling: [inaudible 00:02:17] and they have a really cool tour, so I figured the best way to do it, we'll go through a few different kitchen options and we'll kind of walk through some of the design selections that had been done there and use that kind of as hopefully a board to bounce ideas off of you Jonathan and keep it really light and conversational for everybody. And then we'll save the last 10 minutes or so towards the end just for Q&A for anybody who has any questions they might have.

About Livio, we're general contractor. We build custom single-family homes all throughout the San Francisco Bay Area. We do so by utilizing and building the best in class technology that's out there and delivering... well, we hope it's a far superior product as a result of the utilization of technology and also, by partnering with some of the best subcontractors and vendors there are throughout the Bay Area, Precision being one of them.

We have a really unique design delivery and project delivery format. We have our team here in Los Altos, but then we also have partially of our team in India, that enables us to have a really vertically integrated design process. Everything from engineering, to renderings, to mechanical design, plumbing design, everything you can think of. So, able to provide really a turnkey solution for any of the owners who are out there and provide a benefit and a value add that I think is pretty unique in the industry and that not a lot of other general contractors can offer for residential clients.

So, really excited to share that and bring all the benefits that there are to that. And ultimately, bringing it back to the client’s pocket and also from a schedule standpoint as well. Of course, I'm a small representation of the entire team, but we wouldn't be able to do it without everybody working hard. So, hats off to our entire team. With that said, Jonathan it would be great if you could introduce yourself, talk a little bit about Precision and we'll kick it off.

Jonathan Lopez: Yeah, my name is Jonathan Lopez. I just actually started with Precision back in February. I've been in appliances since 2013. I started at Airport Appliance. I was there for about five, six years. I was an Atherton Appliance before that. I've kind of come from all aspects in regards to the appliances, you know, ordering wise, different brands, very high-end products, entry level products, property management clients, full remodels, all that kind of stuff.

So, I'm kind of well versed in a little bit of everything in regards to appliances, so I'm happy to go into like the nitty gritty details of products, features, benefits, or just promotions. Any of that kind of stuff or questions even if it's brands that we don't carry. Because at Precision at the moment, we're a cabinet company. And we have brought on Sub-Zero Wolf as our first brand of appliances and now we actually sell Bosch and Thermador. And we've added on other brands like Vent-A-Hood, and Perlick. Some of those brands we're slowly but surely trying to bring on just. We just like to make sure that the brands that we do offer kind of go in line with that high end quality that we offer in our cabinetry.

Rob Dowling: Excellent. Yeah, and then for anybody who's listening who hasn't had a chance to watch the cabinet webinar with Ed over on the cabinet division side of Precision, I definitely highly encourage anybody who's listening to go back and watch that webinar as well. Jonathan, there's no coincidence that you offer both services for cabinets and appliances. There's marriage between the two and a lot of those decisions can be made in parallel. So, it's fantastic that we can send our clients over to Precision and take care of both so that all those considerations are being are being accounted for when making those decisions. So, awesome.

I'm going to start just by kind of giving like a really broad overview of hey, what are the different appliances that are out there? And maybe at the same time, we can talk through, Jonathan, which ones may show up in your showrooms and which ones aren't going to be showing up in your showroom so we can give folks kind of an overview of what we may not be covering out of this kind of broader overview. But if you don't mind, why don't we kick it off, we'll make our way left to right, bottom down, and then go from there.

Jonathan Lopez: Yeah, so we do have some wallet ovens on display. Right now, we only have Sub-Zero Wolf on display. We're in the process of getting our Thermador and Bosch products on display probably towards the end of the year. We have, I want to say instead of double ovens, we have cooktops as well, gas, and electric. We have chimney style hood like the one in the picture there. Freezers, we have like column freezers so essentially, if there's somebody who wants to do a built-in refrigerator, let's say they want to do a 30-inch refrigerator a 30-inch freezer, we have something like that. We don't offer like the freestanding freezers that go in the garage like the GE, the Frigidaire, Whirlpool brands. Ice makers, we do offer those under counter. So, under counter ice makers like a 15-inch unit. We offer that, we just don't have it on display for some of those.

We do have a beverage center on display, we have full height wine columns. So, just like a standard height of a column is 84 inches in the height, so we have a couple of those on display. We have couple refrigerators on display as well. We don't have free standing on display for those washer dryers we don't have on display at the moment. And I think at the moment with ranges, we have gas and dual fuel, couple dishwashers as well, panel ready or stainless steel. Microwaves, we don't have a microwave on display at the moment but we're in the process of getting a microwave drawer on display for Wolf as well. And then trash compactors, that's something I don't believe we can order but I was able to recommend brands that is a good trash compactor option.

Rob Dowling: Excellent. Okay, that sounds great. Yeah, the I know a lot of the appliances these days face, microwaves are combined with the oven unit, right? It has kind of a convection option. Maybe we can get into that in a bit more detail, but at a high level, kind of these are the main topics. We probably won't get to washers and dryers for anybody who's listening. But hopefully, we can get to the majority of these and talk through some of the different options that are out there and hopefully, with a wide enough variety such that it applies to your project. Name of the webinar is Top 10 Considerations. In full transparency, I haven't run this list by Jonathan yet so he's seen it for the first time. But Jonathan, this was our stab at putting together kind of from our perspective as a general contractor and working through, and also offering design-built service with clients’ kind of the important ones that we've noticed. But it'd be great if you could talk through these and how it goes into your process of helping customers make their decision.

Jonathan Lopez: Yeah. Like anything, when you start a project, it's like you have an idea of what you want it to look like, the end results, but then not so much on the numbers, then you start to get numbers together. And it's kind of really what you're doing. If you're doing a full house remodel, kind of what you're really looking for in terms of budget wise is like the quality of the materials in terms of like stones or flooring or any of that kind of stuff. When it comes to the appliances, a lot of the times I kind of start with like Sub-Zero Wolf. They tend to be that premium line that we offer, but it also has the quality.

So, in terms of budget, I usually ask my clients like, what are you looking for in regards to the appliances? Because if you're looking for something more on the budget side, I would probably recommend something like a freestanding refrigerator that Bosch or Thermador offers instead of a built-in refrigerator. You know, built in refrigerator starting off at 36 inches in the width, they can start anywhere from $9,000 and go all the way up to $16,000 just depending on the brand. So, sometimes customers are not wanting to go with that built in refrigerator to save on the cost. Like a freestanding built in refrigerator from Bosch, you can get it for a little bit less than $3000 in terms of the price point. It still has that nice look to it, stainless steel. If you do Thermador appliances, the Thermador freestanding refrigerator is basically a Bosch but it has matching handles, so you can still have that complete look of the kitchen with the stainless steel, the logo, and the handles.

So, with a budget it's really what you're looking for. If you are looking for kind of a statement piece like let's say you want to do a custom hood, a really nice look in like hammered copper or like stainless with brass bands or rivets or any of that kind of stuff, then of course, the budget is going to get a little bit higher because something like that, it's going to be more in terms of the cost. In a custom hood, you can go anywhere from a couple thousands to 10, 12. I've seen hoods go for $20,000. It just really depends on the size and really what you're looking for. I tell my customers really, it's kind of what you want out of the appliances. If it's really more on the aesthetic, then we can take a look at a brand that's not so much in terms of the price but still has a really good aesthetic and it still has a decent quality. Or if it's something where you want to get something that is a premium line but it also has a very good quality and support for the customer. You know, is that important versus lower on the price. So, I usually ask those questions in terms of the budget.

If we're talking about size constraints, of course, with us since a lot of our appliance quotes come from our cabinet customers, so we're able to figure out dimensions and things like that. But if you're replacing appliances, if you're going with a built-in oven, later on down the line you might have more size constraints because ovens and cooktops have specific cutouts in the cabinetry or the countertops that are cut or made to spec based on that appliance. Sometimes the customers go exactly to spec to that stuff just to make sure that unit will fit in there. But just keep in mind later on down the line, if everything is very snug like there's not really much play in the cabinet, then you're kind of stuck with that dimension and later on, you have to find something that will fit, not necessarily what you want. So, just keep that in mind in terms of size constraints.

In terms of refrigerators, there's a lot of different sizes in refrigerators. So that's not too much of an issue. For instance, like Sub-Zero refrigerators, if you go with a 36, a 42, or 48. The dimensions for those sizes haven't changed in 20 years. So, there's not much constraints on those freestanding ranges. If you're going 30, 36, 48, 60-inch, those dimensions aren't going to change so if you have a 48-inch and you want a new one, you pull the 48 out, you put a new 48. So, there's not much on that. If you do more of like a custom hood or I should say a hood insert, that's where you have the hood that's built into the cabinetry or it's something built around it, you necessarily don't see like all of the stainless steel. Something like that you might have some size constraints because you're building that box around that hood. So that's something to think about.

Dishwashers they're all the same, most of them same size. So that's pretty easy. And then cabinet design, in terms of the appliances, a lot of the times based on the look you're going for. If you're going for a contemporary, you're probably going to want that appliance to be more contemporary as well, maybe appliance that doesn't have a handle, something that's really clean lines that doesn't look too industrial, you might want to match with that. If you're going with a traditional kitchen, you probably are going to want something that does have a little bit more of an industrial look too that will go well with a traditional kitchen. And then you also have transitional. If you go with something that's transitional, which is a little bit of contemporary and traditional, then you can kind of almost go with either or you can go contemporary in the appliances or you can go with something that's in between like Wolf offers like a transitional line as well with more of a tubular handle with clean lines. So, you could go with something like that.

Utility availabilities, in all the appliances they're either going to be 110, electric 220, gas. Some of those in terms of utilities, like if you're doing an induction cooktop, that unit requires more amps. You just have to keep that in mind in terms of planning for the electrical in terms of the panel if you're going to change anything or you're going to keep the same panel, especially if you're replacing. So, if you have a standard cooktop and it has a coil on the top or it's a radiant cooktop which when you turn it on you see it kind of glow red and then pulls off. Something like that is a radiant cooktop. That's going to have less amps than an induction cooktop. So, for that, you're going to have to change the amps on that panel to make sure it'll accommodate for it.

Gas appliances like a gas cooktop is just going to be a regular 110 outlet and you just need a gas line for it. If you're doing a gas range, same thing, gas line and 110 outlet. If you're doing dual fuel, dual fuel requires a gas outlet with a 220-volt plug. So that means instead of having an oven that's gas powered, you have an electric oven. So, like if you wanted self-cleaning, if you wanted a clock, a timer, a meat temperature probe, a lot of the times the dual fuel appliances have that but the all-gas appliances don't. So just keep that in mind in terms of the utilities. Refrigerators are pretty easy. You are plumbing your water line, your shutoff valve has got to be there and your regular 110 outlet. So those are pretty easy.

Family size comes into play when it comes to like the size of the cooking appliances. So if the kitchen is a good size and there's not so much issue in terms of the size constraints, then I usually ask, well, how many people are in the family? If it's a family of five plus or something like that they're probably going to want a refrigerator that's a good size. I find like at that size, you probably going to want either like a 48 refrigerator or bigger like a 54-inch or a 60-inch maybe with like a 36-inch range or 48-inch range. With the 48-inch ranges, they do have two ovens. They have a smaller oven and a normal size oven. So, you're able to do two different dishes at one time.

Let's see. Cooking requirements. On that I usually say, cooking requirements like if you have a particular style of cooking, if you use a wok or if you do more baking, so if you're using a wok, a lot of the brands offer some kind of wok accessory that if you use a lot, it'll either be... like Wolf has a full grate, where the front burner there's like a circular cutout you just set the wok inside of it. On the Thermador, they have a wok ring that you put that on top of the burner grate and then you're able to just put the wok in there. If you're like baking, it really depends. I've heard that commercial bakers end up using a gas oven because they like to use a wet heat. Sometimes, in terms of baking like if you're going to do a souffle or something like that, you're going to want that temperature to be the same, so you're probably going to want an electric oven. Whether it's a dual fuel range that has the electric oven or it has a built-in wall oven. Because that's going to be even heat.

And then especially too if you are baking in regards to that same temperature, you're probably going to want something that has true convection. True convection is a little bit different than standard convection. Standard convection is literally just a fan inside the oven that helps circulate the heat. True convection means that there's a fan with dedicated heating elements either next to it or in front of it that direct that he in the entire oven cavity. So, if you're doing cookies on the top or bottom rack, you wouldn't have to rotate them or you moving from top to bottom. It would be the same temperature from beginning to end.

If we're talking about brands, premium appliances nationwide tend to be your Sub-Zero Wolf, Thermador, Mila, Viking, and like GE Monogram. Those tend to be the main brands across the board that are known for premium appliances. Like you said, we offer the Sub-Zero Wolf and the Thermador at the moment. But Sub-Zero Wolf tends to give, I've usually said the best quality and service They have a dedicated service company called Box Appliance. With Box Appliance, essentially, all they fix is Sub-Zero Wolf product. So, if they come out and they need to fix something, then you know that's all-day fix. It's not like you're getting a company that fixes multiple brands and things like that. That's what they specialize in. And sometimes it's easier because they have the parts already.

And then quality control. With Sub-Zero Wolf, like every Sub-Zero refrigerator or actually, every 3-4% of Sub-Zeros that are made are tested for quality defects. Before they leave the factory, they test them again just to make sure they are running properly. So, just that extra step that they take is why they tend to be a higher price point because the quality is that higher. And they are made in the US. They're made in Madison, Wisconsin. Some of the product for Thermador is made in the US as well, which is in North Carolina. So, it is made in Turkey and German as well. So, in Germany as well for some of their dishwashers. I think the list disappeared. There was one more, I think.

Rob Dowling: I've just now found it. I don't know what happened to the window. I'm making my way back over there right now.

Jonathan Lopez: No problem.

Rob Dowling: There we go. Aesthetics and design. I think you already discussed a little bit with the more traditional transitional modern.

Jonathan Lopez: Yeah. And then the warranty wise, most of the brands in the market are a two-year manufacturer warranty. If it's a premium appliance like Sub-Zero Wolf, Thermador, Mila, Viking, Monogram, most of those are two-year manufacturer's warranty. But depending on the product, it'll have other warranties in different categories. Like built in refrigerators, a lot of them have a 10-15-year warranty on the compressor, a five-year warranty in the sealed system. So, there's different warranties based on the appliances in those categories, but usually parts and labor like you don't have to pay anything is usually the first two years.

Sustainability, like I said quality control is pretty big. And like I said Sub-Zero Wolf, they definitely kind of set the standard in terms of high-end appliances when it comes to quality control. Thermador does as well. They do test, I believe it's every 10% of their stuff that they test. But either one, if you're like in terms of high-end appliances, you couldn't go wrong with.

Rob Dowling: Excellent. I know there was a lot of information there. For anybody listening right now, we'll take all this information and when we make it live on our website, we'll try to kind of break it down into bullet points and kind of talk a little bit about each one of these in text version as well hopefully for everybody's use. There was a ton of awesome information that was in there that I think would be hugely impactful when making your decision. Thank you, Jon, that we're going into detail on each one of those. I know one item there, that's a challenge for us is, California has pushed to keep all electric projects going forward, and we're dealing with it on a couple of projects. Jonathan, for folks who are listening who let's say are really disappointed that they're not going to be able to cook on natural gas or anything else, what's the best alternative that's out there for them right now, in your opinion?

Jonathan Lopez: Induction for sure. The funny thing is, I feel like when it comes to cooking, we're creatures of habit. If we'd used gas, it's what we're used to, if we use electric, it's what we're used to. And it could be as small as seeing the flame going from a high to a low, it's just what we're used to. On electric, you don't see that. With those new requirements, for homes have gas, a lot of the times if they’re the full tear down remodel, you're having to go with electric. I tell my customers it might be a benefit because when you look at the efficiency between gas, electric, and induction, the percentages between the two, so gas is actually the least efficient way to cook because you lose a lot of heat into the kitchen. When you turn that burner on, heat expands diagonally. It goes like this, so you lose a lot of the heat into the kitchen, so you're not getting all the heat to the pan. They say it's 40% efficiency for gas, 60% for electric, and I believe it's like 90% for induction.

And the reason why, induction basically turns your pot or pan into the heating element. And it's actually the safest in terms of cooking. It's the easiest to clean, because with the induction it's just a flat surface with glass. So, you just really have to wipe down the glass if you get something on there. If it was electric, that possess on and off for each burner. So, if you spilled a spaghetti sauce or something on it as it was on, it would burn on there and it's hard to get that stuff off. But for induction the burner itself, it gets warm from residual heat but it doesn't actually get hot like a burner. So, if you were to take that pan off, you can touch it, it'd be hot but it wouldn't be like that radiant burner where you're taken off skin kind of thing.

It's something where it's the safest to cook. So, like if you turn the burner on and a gas burner it's on. If you were to turn on induction burner on, if you don't use it after so many seconds, it just turns off. But even if you turned it on and you put your hand there, it wouldn't react, it wouldn't turn on. But you know, if you accidentally put like a ferrous metal spoon or something on there, it would react to that. It would get that spoon hot. So just keep that in mind. But again, the benefit to that is it's just very even heat cooking, very easy to clean and maintain as well. So, if you're running into those problems, I tell my customers there's a light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to that, it might be something where you might like it.

I tried to get my wife over to the induction world and she wasn't having it. She's she liked the gas so we ended up running a gas line in our combo. But it's something where if you end up going with induction, it's not as bad as it sounds like a lot of times customers think you have to change all of your pots and pans, not true. As long as the pan reacts to a magnet, so it's ferrous metal, you can use it with induction.

Rob Dowling: Awesome. Yeah. I mean, that's something that certainly just as of recently, of course, with the California initiatives that are coming up, definitely something that we're dealing with pretty much on every project these days. For anybody who's listening, hopefully that was helpful. Hopefully, it makes it a little less scary. I'm making that decision. But anyways, so Jonathan, I just virtually walked into your showroom. I figured we can take everybody through all of the... first of all, awesome showroom you have. And we can just talk through kind of what we're looking at to give everybody a nice visual for the appliances that you have showcased and we can talk through. Really, you can just see the variety that's in here and we can talk through a lot of different other different options that are out there. Maybe we could start. Jonathan, maybe we could start just on the first appliance which is the fridge that we're seeing here.

Jonathan Lopez: Yeah, that's our chef's kitchen. That kitchen is live. We've done cooking demonstrations on there, we've had the chef from Rick's come by and do a demo on it. That's more of like the professional style kitchen in regards to the appliances. Like if we're starting with the refrigerator, the refrigerator that's called the Pro 48. The Pro 48 series for Sub-Zero, it's very industrial. It sticks out past the cabinetry about, I want to say around seven inches past the cabinet which normal built-in refrigerators like a built in Sub-Zero normally would stick out about three inches. If it's a column, it would probably only stick out like... if you did a 24-inch cabinet, it would probably stick out like maybe one inch. But if you did 25-inch deep cabinets, it'd be flushed.

This particular model, the funny thing is, you see how it sticks out like that, that's actually flush installed, meaning that the actual side of it is recessed into the cabinet. It definitely is a beefy refrigerator but the benefits of that model is that the all of the left side is freezer, all of the right side is refrigerator. Now, if you were to open up the refrigerator, you would notice that it doesn't have [inaudible 00:29:04]. What they do is since it's so deep, they make that model not have [inaudible 00:29:09] so you could fit deeper platters and dishes and things like that in there. And a lot of times brands that have [inaudible 00:29:18], they don't even recommend putting them in the door and we all do anyway, just because the temperature doesn't always get to the coldest point at the door. So that's why a lot of times the milk ends up going bad faster if it's not in the actual refrigerator shelving.

But with that style there again Port 48 left side freezer, right side refrigerator, you can get it with or without that glass door there. If you prefer just to be a solid stainless steel, you could get it solid or you can just go with the glass if you'd like. The nice thing about the right side of the refrigerator is that there's two different temperature zones. So, the right side of that refrigerator, you would be able to set the temperature for the bottom drawer and the door on the top. And then you can actually independently set that middle drawer on the right side. So that you can actually put, like more humidity sensitive items in there. So, if you do a lot of farmers markets, veggies, things like that, you can actually set that temperature different to what you would like the rest of the refrigerator to be. Which is definitely a plus if you had a platter or something you wanted at a particular temperature. If you wanted to marinate something at a particular temperature, you can change that, which is a plus.

And then if we move over to the right side of that model right next to it, if we go more towards the front of the kitchen. That appliance next to the refrigerator, right there, that is a steam oven. Steam ovens have become a lot more popular over the years before. Like when I first started in appliances back in 2013, steam was still not really gaining much traction and I feel like it's definitely getting a lot more popular. A lot of chefs that have been to trainings end up using it a lot. With steam ovens, there are a few different options. For instance, on the Wolf that you see there, that model you can either convection bake or you can steam only cook or you can convection bake and steam at the same time.

Now, for me, in terms of recipes like too familiar and know what the best things to cook in it is. From what I've seen in the trainings that I've been to, a lot of the times they don't really start proteins in there. So, like if you're doing chicken or beef tenderloin or any of that kind of stuff, they don't start it in here. What they do is they usually would sear it first. Get those sear or char marks on that protein and then finish it off in the steam oven so that you're cooking with moisture and you're going to get something that's a little bit more tender versus dried out.

What I really like the steam for is reheating. It doesn't replace a microwave, I usually say you still need a microwave for small things. If you really want to just wanted to reheat a cup of coffee or popcorn or any of that kind of stuff, you'd still need a standard microwave. But for reheating, the steam oven is going to be 10 times better. The reason why is because microwaves dry out foods. If you've ever reheated a slice a pizza or rice or pasta or any of that kind of stuff, it's never the same. But if you put it in a steam oven, you're putting moisture back into the food versus microwaves drying out the food. So, if you’re going to reheat again rice, pastas, breads, pizza, that kind of stuff, it's almost like you've just made it because again, you're putting that moisture back into the food. A lot of times, restaurants they've already have food cooked and they just reheat it in the steam oven. So that's another thing.

But for this particular model, there are models on the market that are plumbed, meaning that there's a hard water line to it. This particular one, if you look at the right corner of that model, that is the water reservoir. So, you do have to fill that out. It's not something you have to redo every single time. I would say like one or two, three maybe depending on what you're cooking and how long, you would have to refill it and it would let you know, you know that it needs to be filled and things like that.

Rob Dowling: What brands would a steam oven be available in right now maybe that you're able to offer?

Jonathan Lopez: Sure. That I offer right now, again, the Wolf we also have Thermador and Bosch. So, if we were to compare like that Wolf model it would be comparable to the Bosch model in regards to the capacity and it has a water reservoir and things like that, but they do offer in the Thermador style, a double XL steam. What I mean by that is it's double the size as that steam oven that you see there for the Thermador and it also has a broiler. Some of the steam ovens don't have a broiler, like the Wolf doesn't have a broiler or the Bosch. So, the Thermador model, having a broiler, it's basically a full functioning oven that has a capability to use the steam as well, so that's definitely a plus. Then when we look at the range there, so a range basically means that it has the burners on the top and the ovens below. Not built-in ovens but the actual full-on one-piece model. That size there is a 60-inch range, so it has two standard size ovens. That's a dual fuel model. The ovens on that are electric and the burners on the top are the gas.

There's also a double-wide griddle, so a 24-inch griddle. A lot of the times with customers when they go with these models, they go with either a griddle and grill or a double griddle. I usually recommend the double griddle just because in terms of the indoor grill, the infrared grill, it's a little bit more to clean and then it also produces a lot more smoke in the kitchen, so you definitely need a powerful hood. I usually tell my customers, when you're thinking of this with a range, you want to also think of the hood above the ventilation. If you're getting a range like that, you're not going to want to a hood that's only like 500 CFM. CFM is cubic feet per minute, so basically that's the amount of power that it's going to pull out the air.

The general rule of thumb when you are choosing a hood is to add up the total amount of BTU's, which are on the range and that's, that stands for British thermal units, so how they basically measure the amount of heat that's coming out of that burner. You add up the total amount of BTUs on that top and you divide it by a hundred and that's what they recommend. But that's if you were using your range with every single burner on it at on high all the time, which nobody does. Usually customers are using two, three, maybe four or five burners when holidays come around and things like that. By doing that you basically are able to just get a hood. I usually recommend that a thousand CFM or above for that. That's what I would recommend it. That's what that is.

That style hood that you see there, that's called a Professional Wall Hood and you see, you can do a cabinet above it like we did, or you can also do a stainless-steel duct cover. That's the same width as that hood that would go up to the ceiling if you'd like. It's called professional because professional style hoods from the bottom of the hood to the top is 18 inches, which allows for a more of a powerful blower to go inside that hood for that style. Then what you don't see in this kitchen, right on the adjacent side of the refrigerator is refrigerator drawers by Sub-Zero that we have there. Refrigerator drawers, if you had overflow, if you wanted it for a wet bar basement, a lot of that kind of stuff, you can do that. But the benefit to that is, is that they do offer a lot of different sizes. Right there. There we go. They offer either 24 inch in the width. That's more of a standard size, but Sub-Zero offers a 27 inch in the width, a 30 inch in the width and a 36-inch model in the width. Standard, I usually recommend as a 24 because if you go with any of the other sizes, you are kind of constrained on what other brands offer that size. Like 27-inch, Sub-Zero is the only one that makes it 27-inch. So if you went with that, you'd be having to go with another Sub-Zero later on. Not that that's a bad thing but sometimes in terms of that size, like if you're remodeling or any of that kind of stuff, if you want a little bit more standard dimensions, 24 inches is the standard in terms of those dimensions.

Rob Dowling: Jonathan, when it comes to refrigerator drawers, is it still considered, are only premium brands currently offering refrigerator drawers or have lower and more affordable manufacturers started to introduce refrigerator drawers?

Jonathan Lopez: No. There are a few brands that offer a refrigerator drawer option. Something a little bit more cost-effective would be like, I would say like a Uline. Uline is another company. We don't offer it, but they are a good brand. If you're looking for a brand that you kind of wanted this specialty brand, I usually recommend finding a company that specializes in under counter products. Uline is one. One that we offer is Perlick, but Perlick is going to be more again in that, at that premium level of appliances. So, for instance, a cost difference between a Uline unit would probably be less than 3,000. It’d probably be somewhere between 2,500 to 3,000. They can go up to 5,000, depending on the model. Perlick would probably start at about, I would say, 3,500 and go up to almost 5,000 for that particular brand. That’s what I would probably say for the U-Line for more cost effective.

There are other brands on there, out there. I think like Danby offers something, but in terms of that product is definitely something where it has a lower price point, but just in terms of the quality they don't last as long. That's what you'll see with some of that. What you see now is a kind of our wine bar. So the wine bar, we have two Sub-Zero column wine units. Those hold 78 bottles each, they are dual zone unit, meaning that you can have two different temperatures at one time. So, if you wanted to, let's say store wine at the bottom and have your drinking wine at the top or vice versa or if you wanted to put red wines at the bottom and your white wines on top, you can do that as well. Or even if you just wanted your certain wines to be at a certain drinking temperature, you can store them at one temperature and have it at a drinking temperature in the other one, whichever you prefer. You can set that temperature independently for each zone.

Then that's a 24-inch model for each one in terms of the width. 84 inches in the height, which is standard, but you could get as low as 18 inches in the width. Again, that's a 24 inch. They offer a 30-inch as well for that style. Then I'm not sure if you could see it, but on the other side of that table, that's in the picture there, is a beverage unit. So, that beverage unit, it's under counter. It's 24 inches in the width. There we go. That's basically the same size as a dishwasher, 24 inches in the width, 34 inches in the height cabinet depth. But beverage units, they usually always come with wine racks, at least one or two, so that you could put sparkling water bottles in there, beer bottles, champagnes, any of that kind of stuff that you wanted at a colder temperature. That's what that one would offer. That's an old model that's on the picture. The new model is an espresso interior, so it's a brown interior and they moved that wine rack to the bottom, I believe, on the new model.

Rob Dowling: Excellent. Well, let's make our way maybe a little deeper into your showroom and we can talk through maybe the different options that you present and have on display in your different kitchens. Obviously, this kitchen looks a little bit different. Do you mind walking us through the differences?

Jonathan Lopez: Sure.

Rob Dowling: Obviously, we are looking at the top-of-the-line chef’s kitchen, moving over to, I guess, what you guys are applying into your showroom as a traditional kitchen. Would you mind walk through the differences here?

Jonathan Lopez: Yeah. That's more of our traditional kitchen. You see that it has a little bit more of that somewhat industrial look with the grill at the top like that. Sub-Zero has different series. That particular series is called the classic series. The classic series always has that grill at the top. That's a 48-inch in the width. That refrigerator, and there are a few different options you could get with the 48-inch side by side Sub-Zero. That model is the ice only model. So, meaning that on the left side, on the freezer, it has an internal ice maker. But they offer a model that has an internal dispensing water and ice maker and they also offer an external water and ice maker as well. You won't get the crushed ice, but it does offer the external as well.

Then if you look towards the right, so as we're talking about that unit there, that's called a range top. A range top, just how it sounds, it's basically the top of a range. The benefit of going with a range top versus a cooktop is that the cooktops are usually max out at 36 inches in the width. There are some brands that go bigger, but then you're kind of stuck with that brand because of that particular dimension. I think a Dacor offers like a 46-inch model, not the only ones. But this versus a standard cooktop is that the cooktop number one, it has a stainless-steel top and you have to cut your countertop to that specific hole. It's also usually full stainless steel if you're doing gas. So, like if you were cleaning up a spaghetti sauce or something that's built on the surface, you're cleaning it off the stainless steel and stainless steel is less forgiving in terms of cleaning. If you had a sponge and use the abrasive size of the sponge to clean, you'd probably get some scratches in the stainless steel, but this one for the range top, you'll notice that under those grates there, it's a black surface. That's actually black porcelain enamel coating. Almost all brands use that, so that it's easier to clean and maintain over time. You see that shiny black. That's what that material is. It's just easier to clean and maintain.

This particular model, it's four burners with a griddle in the middle. At this size, that's not too popular. Usually, customers at 36 go with the six burners. It's really not so much because they need six burners. It's just because they have that six-burner space to use. So, if you're having, let's say you had a big 13-inch sauté pan and a big pot going with some spaghetti in it or something like that, you would still have the room to move those around if you were cooking with those or move one side to the other and still utilize either burner. But with this, you have the four burners, two on each side with the griddle in the middle for this one. Again, cooktop versus the range top, so the stainless steel on the top, also the cooking surface. The knobs on a cooktop or on the top, right where you're cooking. The knobs on the range top or in the front. So, you get that full 36-inch space of cooking space with a range top.

Then if we zoom out. That hood above it, that is called a cabinet insert. With the cabinet insert, you're basically building around that hood. So, whatever look you'd like, if you'd like it to be like this, where it's more traditional, if you wanted it to be more contemporary and just kind of have the cabinets go flat all the way across, but you're hiding the hood, you can do that as well. It's kind of up to you in terms of the look you want when you do the cabinet inserts. Then with that, you see it has the baffle style filters. The baffle style filters are those, same style as like restaurant cooking. Restaurants use the baffle filters because they capture the grease well, but they also are easy to clean. Those are dishwasher safe. Then also, you usually want to use medium to high speed for those.

Then we have the double oven on the right side there. That's a Wolf M series. M as in Mary series and that's the professional style. The professional style you see has that more robust handle and it also has the knobs. This tends to be a very popular style because sometimes customers don't want to use the control panels with all electronics to set the temperature. Like for instance, if this one didn't have knobs, that touch screen where the time is that is a touch screen, you would actually have to use that to swipe through to pick if you want bake or convection bake or roast, or any of that kind of stuff with your finger, and then you would have to set the temperature as well with your fingers. With this, you just turn the knob. If you're going at 350, turn to 350, and then if you wanted to go through to bake you just turn it over to convection bake for this one. This one, both of those are going to be convection for the top and bottom and it is also true convection for bolt as well.

Rob Dowling: Excellent. When it comes to making the decision between a range versus going with a cooktop and a double oven, if somebody's going back and forth, what's the biggest deciding factor they usually see?

Jonathan Lopez: I would say it really depends on how they cook. Somebody that doesn't really use their oven at all, probably would go with a range because then they don't have to take up space in the cabinetry. They just have the range with the ovens below. Somebody that uses their ovens a lot would probably prefer this style because it's not so low. You don't have to bend down so much to get to that roast or turkey or that kind of stuff because it's higher up. A lot of the times that's really the deciding factor. For somebody that cooks a lot and they're using the ovens and the stove top, then I would usually say that they do this style. Somebody that really wants more of that bigger cooking space, but not necessarily using the ovens much, they probably would go with the range.

Rob Dowling: Makes total sense. Moving over to a different look, something a different than the other two kitchens that we've seen, but this is a bit more of a modern look.

Jonathan Lopez: Definitely more modern on that one. You see the panel ready on a dishwasher. That's a dishwasher there. That's panel. Dishwashers, you can either do stainless steel or you can do panel on there so you can hide it if you wanted to. Then on towards the right, you see your 36-inch gas cooktop with an oven below. You could do something like that. That's a flush mount of an install, meaning that the appliance and the cabinetry sit at the same depth versus a standard install. Standard install just means that you're basically okay with the appliance sticking out past the cabinets. Then you see the 36-inch gas cooktop, but you see how the top of the cooktop is stainless steel, so the cooking surface where you would have to clean the stainless and then the knobs are right there as well. You only get the five burners and then the knobs are in the way a little bit, but a lot of times, again, customers are using two to three burners. I still have customers go with cooktops as well to make sure that they save on the space.

Rob Dowling: Makes sense. Then rather than going into a specific Q&A section for everybody who's watching live right now, I'm going to stay in the showroom and just ask the questions that have come up that are in the queue and take a tour. I'll try to ask them in context to where we are so that we can go through the area. I encourage anybody who is listening, who does have a specific question, there's two ways to ask. As a participant, you can raise your hand and I can call on you directly. Alternatively, you can write a question in the Q&A box up above, and I will try to get to that, but we have about seven minutes. So, if you have questions, any other new questions, feel free to ask those. Otherwise, I'm going to go through the list that we have now and go from there. One of them was in regards to a chimney hood. It would be great if you walk us through what the difference is here and what brands of chimneys hoods available.

Jonathan Lopez: Chimney hoods, we offer Wolf, we offer Thermador, Bosch and Vent-a-Hood. Chimney hoods, it really depends on the look. A lot of times when customers are choosing a hood, they go for the look that they want. Like this look, when you look at it, at this angle it looks flat, but it does have a small pyramid to it at the top of it. This isn't too standard, like to build a duct cover into the wood like that. It's not to standard. A lot of the times, customers just mount the hood. This is called an island hood, by the way, meaning an island hood is finished stainless steel all the way around. A wall hood, only the front is finished. When you take it off the wall, it's not finished in the back. For this one, a lot of times that really depends. If you're putting it on an island, you would get an island hood. If it was against the wall, you would get a wall hood, just like the other hoods that we saw, those are against the wall. Those are considered wall hoods.

Chimney style, I usually tell my customers, as long as it has some kind of pyramid to it, that's what I recommend. The reason why is because if you get a hood that's flat, it's not as efficient because when air is going into the hood and it has to hit, let's say on the far-left side of the hood, and it has to go through the filter and then it hits that wall, it has to slow it down and then turn and go up. That's not too efficient in terms of airflow. With this style, having some kind of a slope to it, it directs the air to where it's supposed to go. I usually recommend that in terms of the look, but, in terms of the aesthetic, sometimes that's the most important thing in terms of the look. If you're going for that specific look, it's not to say it's not going to work. It's just not going to be as efficient for that style.

Rob Dowling: You read the question perfectly. It’s exactly pertaining to how efficient those units are. A lot of them are really slim and sleek, but certainly understanding the trade-off there is important.

Jonathan Lopez: One more thing in terms of the hoods, the general rule of thumb is you always want to turn on your hood about 5 to 10 minutes before you start cooking and you open up a sliding door or window, and nobody usually does it. I don't do it myself. But usually, it's because if you do that and when you're cooking heat, grease, steam smell goes into the hood, it gets channeled into the hood. You create a draft essentially versus as you're cooking and things are going like this expanding and going into the kitchen.

Rob Dowling: Got it. We also had a couple of questions in regards to non-gas cooktops. You already mentioned. So, for anybody who joined late Jonathan did get into the perception of electric versus gas in cooking. But Jonathan, if you wouldn't mind telling us a little bit about what it is that we're looking at, as far as this cooking service and what the different options are.

Jonathan Lopez: Sure. That's a 30-inch induction Wolf cooktop. It has four burners with it. You can't really see it here, but on the left side of that cooktop, there are two burners. Those two burners, they can bridge together, meaning that they can just make one solid cooking surface on the left side for those two burners. Then on the far-right side corner in the back there's a smaller burner and then right diagonal to that on the bottom left or bottom middle I should say is the bigger burner. Again, with induction, it is the most efficient in terms of cooking. Because again, it turns your pot or pan into the heating element. The easiest way to explain how induction works is it creates friction between the surface and the pans to conduct heat. Another example, if you were to rub your hands together like this, they get warm. It's the same way how induction works.

Then also, as long as you have a fairest metal pan, it will work with induction. The more ferrous metal in that pan, the better it will work with the induction as well. But again, if you were cooking something and like a spaghetti sauce built on that, you can pick up the pan and wipe it with a paper towel. Very easy to clean and to maintain. You could get scratches on it. I usually tell my customers, if you put like some kind of parchment paper up, oven safe paper on top of the cooking surface, and you put the cast iron pan on top of it, it will still work. The benefits of that is you can prevent the scratches from that.

Rob Dowling: Excellent. One thing, I mean, we talked about it a little bit, but the built-in hood insert. We were looking at this one before. Obviously, this is the more traditional look. This is almost the exact counter opposite of that of having a super sleek look. First of all, how can somebody achieve this if that's the sort of design aesthetic they're looking for?

Jonathan Lopez: Essentially a lot of times upper cabinets are shallower than standard depth cabinets. For instance, if somebody wanted to achieve this look, they'd have to find a hood that was less than 14 inches, so somewhere around 12 inches in depth. Depending on how you cook, I usually don't recommend that. It looks very nice, but the reason why I don't recommend it too often is because most of the time, the most powerful burners are in the front. So, if you were sautéing some veggies or cooking a burger or something like that, the air would have to move backwards versus it just kind of rising up to the hood. But as long as you're turning on 10 minutes before you start cooking, that will help with capturing that heat, grease, steam smell as well.

Rob Dowling: Awesome. I'm going to jump over to this last one since we're almost out of time and just see if there's anything different in this one that maybe we haven't covered this far. I don't think we touched on a paneled fridge.

Jonathan Lopez: Yeah. Those are columns. Columns, basically, customers go with columns if number one, they wanted a little bit more, let's say you wanted a particular size, let's say you wanted a 54-inch refrigerator. They don't make that in the classic series for Sub-Zero or most of the other brands on the market. You would have to go with a 30-inch refrigerator column, a 24-inch freezer column, or you can go vice versa if you wanted a bigger freezer versus a bigger fridge. That's uncommon, but you can do it with that. Then if you wanted it to be more flush. For instance, on this style, the panel by doing a column and making the cabinet 25 inches in depth, you can achieve an eighth inch reveal next to the cabinet and the appliance, so it looks very built in and clean looking. You can even go stainless steel if you want it to, in terms of that look. But sometimes customers aren't wanting so much stainless steel in the kitchen so they'll go with panels to break up the stainless steel.

Rob Dowling: Awesome. This looks like a pretty serious range.

Jonathan Lopez: Yeah. It’s kind of similar to the first one. That's just an all-gas version. In all-gas you don't get like the clock, the meat temperature probe, the timer, the self-clean. For instance, that one, the left oven is baking only, and the right oven does everything in terms of convection baking, roasting. The other oven that we saw on the front, the chef's kitchen, that one, both of the ovens did everything the same.

Rob Dowling: Got it. You mentioned this before, but this would be one where since this hood is against the wall, it wouldn't be finished in the rear. That's the difference between there?

Jonathan Lopez: Correct.

Rob Dowling: Got it.

Jonathan Lopez: That's more of a custom style hood. So, if you wanted something decorative, as that one has bands, that hood goes up for, I think it's almost an 11/5-foot ceiling and it tapers in from [inaudible 00:58:09] it's narrower, things like that. You could achieve that. A brand that we offer for that style would be Vent-A-Hood.

Rob Dowling: Got it. Fantastic. Dishwasher, I don't think we necessarily need to touch on that. I think we hit on that. Anyway, we're just now out of time. I think we've hit on pretty much all the questions that there was. I'm going to quickly actually go to the next slide, just so I can bring up Jonathan's contact information and ours, in case there was anything that we didn’t get to. I know a lot of folks will probably be watching this as a recording as well. So, if there's anything that maybe we weren't able to touch on, it's still an outstanding question for you as you go through and try to figure out the appliances for your new custom single-family home and for whatever reason, either you haven't talked to us yet or anything, reach out to Jonathan. Certainly, you can tell just from this webinar series what a wealth of information he has in regards to all things appliance related and hopefully anybody who's listening will have the opportunity to partner with Jonathan, yourself and Livio to build your new home. Anyways, Jonathan, I really appreciate you taking the time out of your lunch hour.

Jonathan Lopez: Thank you for having me.

Rob Dowling: I look forward to continue to working with Precision. Thanks so much.

Jonathan Lopez: Thank you so much. Happy to help.

Rob Dowling: All right. Take care, everyone.

Jonathan Lopez: Take care.